The Council of Elders:
Tapping the Wisdom of the Vatican II Archbishops
ARCHBISHOP PETER GERETY
Profile and Summary of the Interview
Interview with Archbishop Peter Gerety on August 9, 2005 by Sister Carroll Juliano, SHCJ and Brother Loughlan Sofield S.T. at his home in Rutherford, NJ.
I. Background
Archbishop Peter Gerety is ninety-three years of age. He studied at the Sulpician seminary in Paris, France and was ordained at Notre Dame in Paris in 1939. He served as a priest of the Diocese of New Haven, CT for twenty-seven years, twenty-four of those years serving the black community and then the Puerto Rican community. He was appointed the coadjutor of the Archdiocese of Portland in Maine and soon after that was named the Ordinary. He stayed in Maine for eight years. He was appointed Archbishop of Newark in 1974 and retired in 1986. He is the 2nd oldest living Bishop in the US.
II. Major Issue – The Laity and Collegiality
There was one major issue that seemed to emerge throughout the interview: To develop collegial structures that involve the entire church in more meaningful ways.
A. If he were asked by the Pope what Rome needs to know about the US, he
would recommend, “I would love to have you set up a real system of
collegiality, that’s not a fake.”
B. Bishops need to be able to talk about any issue.
C. There is a need to discuss collegiality at every level of the Church,
including the parishes.
D. There is a desire on the part of most bishops for “a collegial
spirit.”
E. Collegiality must include dialog and accountability
F. “We have to get everybody, the lay people, involved in a massive
fashion and find out what they’re thinking.”
G. When we involve the laity we must accept their decisions. To do otherwise
would be disrespectful.
H. In order to develop such structures the two poles of the legal structure
have to be resolved. This includes the hierarchical structure and the manner
in which it is exercised, and the involvement of the people with canonically
supported responsibilities.
I. Such a structure has all sorts of ramifications.
J. Church structure have changed drastically over the centuries
K. The challenge today is to initiate a discussion with all those involved
in order to discern a structure that provides responsibility and accountability
to the people.
L. This would include looking at the canons that set up consultative bodies.
M. We are operating on two ecclesiologies. We run the Church based on a
Vatican I ecclesiology while proclaiming an ecclesiology of Vatican II.
N. There has been progress but the progress has to be supported by the law,
which in some cases is too vague.
O. Most Bishops desire a great involvement of the laity.
P. What is needed at present are structures, supported by canon law, that
give people authority and demand accountability.
Q. One of the hallmarks of such structures is that there would be frank
and open discussions about all issues.
III. Other Issues
There were a number of interrelated issues that emerged
A. The Culture, the Church and Community
B. Implementation of the Second Vatican Council
C. A Vision of Church
D. Celibacy
E. Preparation of Seminarians
F. Bishops
G. Social Justice
IV. On Culture, the Church and Community
A. Our culture is changing rapidly, experiencing greater mobility and becoming
more secularized.
B. The decrease in the number of baptisms and marriages and the increase
in the number of divorces marriages may be a result of these conditions.
C. There has been a disintegration of the cities, and with that, the frequent
loss of community. “The reestablishment of community among Catholic
people is very challenging.”
D. American excessive individualism has infected people in many ways.
E. The church is becoming more and more culturally diverse. We are losing
cultural Catholics to Protestants sects. This is a major challenge to the
Church. The response should be to “involve the lay people in a really
meaningful manner.”
V. On Implementation of the Second Vatican Council
A. “The imperatives of Vatican II are irreversible.” There
will be bumps, fears and problems in implementing the ideals and vision
of this Council.
B. “Vatican II gave the impetus toward a more broadened approach to
how the Church operates. The Vatican II impetus was to get the whole body
involved but, in fact, we’re operating out of a Vatican I ecclesiology.”
C. Problems often emerge after councils. These problems take generations
to correct. Problems occurred after the Council of Trent and First Vatican
Council. So, it’s no surprise to see it happening after the Second
Vatican Council.
VI. On A Vision of Church
A. There is a clear vision of church that emerged from the Second Vatican
Council. It is: “The Church has got to be involved in the joys and
sorrows of the world.”
B. This is a challenge to every member of the Church, not just the hierarchy,
the clergy and the religious.
C. If a Bishop is to implement such a vision “he has to have it himself”
and he’s has to help everyone capture that vision.
D. Such a vision excites people.
E. A dynamic vision results in greater enthusiasm. This vision will only
become a reality if the priests and laity are filled with enthusiasm. If
the priests are not enthusiastic, it is pretty difficult for the people
to be enthusiastic.
F. The Church cannot operate in a model of survival but must implement the
vision of the Second Vatican Council.
VII. On Celibacy
A. Priests are overwhelmed today. There are two potential solutions: involve
the laity; and, find a way to get more priests.
B. The crux of the question is celibacy and this must be discussed.
C. Archbishop Gerety hopes that Pope Benedict XVI will do something about
it.
D. Celibacy has served the church very well but celibacy shouldn’t
get in the way of the evangelization of people.
E. Theologically, Archbishop Gerety has “a great problem” seeing
so many parishes lacking priests and seeing the tremendous problems facing
people in the parishes.
F. The involvement of the laity will not diminish the need for priests.
G. He would like to have an open discussion about, “Is celibacy getting
in the way?” He doesn’t say it is. He’s merely saying
that we have to talk about it.
H. We’ve got to respond to the needs of the people. “It’s
all very lovely to say we’ve got to pray. The Lord, Himself, told
us to pray for workers in the vineyard. He didn’t say they all had
to be celibate, though.”
I. Archbishop Gerety is not saying that the solution to the current problems
is to eliminate obligatory celibacy for the priesthood. However, he is saying
that we need to talk about it.
J. The basis for such discussion must be facts and good theology. There
are many factors that have to be brought into that discussion and they have
to be well thought through.
VIII. On Preparation of Seminarians
A. Archbishop Gerety wonders whether the seminaries are preparing priests
to involve lay people in the way Vatican II intended.
B. He would like to see a study done on whether today’s seminarians
are being trained to minister to the changing cultural realities, and to
implement the vision of the Second Vatican Council.
IX. On Bishops
A. His advice to a new bishop would be “Try to get into the mentality
of Vatican II”
B. Perhaps the cultural background of some of the newer bishops might make
it difficult for them to work with lay people.
C. Discover the meaning of the imperatives of the Second Vatican Council
and try to implement them as a bishop.
D. Archbishop Gerety would remind new bishops of the necessity of involving
the entire body of the Church.
E. He would also assure new bishops that there are no easy answers.
F. Realizing that today’s Bishops are graduates of the seminaries
he mentioned above, Archbishop Gerety wonders whether they were given sufficient
training to minister to the changing cultural realities and the implementation
of Vatican II.
X. On Social Justice
A. Don’t back off the social issues. If you do that, you’re
turning your back on Gaudium et Spes.
B. Some individuals have negative attitudes about Gaudium et Spes. They
think it’s too dreamy. He disagrees with that.
August 9, 2005
Sister Carroll Juliano, SHCJ
Brother Loughlan Sofield, S.T.